Sunday, May 07, 2006

Taking the Plunge

Markos Moulitsas Zuniga ("Kos") to Appear in Lamont Ad

My Left Nutmeg is reporting that Markos Moulitsas Zuniga of Daily Kos will be appearing with Ned Lamont in a TV advertisement.

Getting beyond the question of what, exactly, this sort of joint appearance would do for Lamont (or do to Lamont), it's worth probing the connection between the Lamont campaign and what it arguably the nation's most popular blog.

It's no secret that Kos isn't a fan of Lieberman. Here are a few quotes, if you haven't been following (these are all taken from DailyKos stories written by Kos over the last few years):
Fact is, Lieberman, the DLC, and the so-called-liberal TNR are tools of the GOP. Whether they intended to or not, they are now typecast as the intra-party bomb throwers. (from DLC, the GOP's best friend 4/13/05)

What is important is partisanship. The most conservative Dem can make an impassioned plea on behalf of the Democratic Party that doesn't sound like Republican-lite.
...
Appeasement cuts across ideological lines. Sure, we have Zell Miller on the party's right, but Joe Lieberman has a progressive record, moderate at worst. And he has completely crossed the line into appeasement territory. Zell just wants to be a Republican, but there are plenty of true Democrats (I assume Lieberman, given his record, is still one of them) who are simply afraid and timid. (from Partisanship over ideology 5/11/04)

Biden bites his tongue and refuses to criticize Dean. Lieberman jumps at the bit. Biden is rewarded with a piece that is essentially about him, all the way through (and the dilemma foreign policy hawks face in the Democratic Party). Lieberman's entire role and purpose in the piece is to take shots at other Democrats.

Like I've been saying, Lieberman (like the DLC) has been typecast. (from Lieberman vs. Democrats 3/17/05)

Lieberman voted for cloture on the bankruptcy bill.
...
It's so nice of Lieberman to give further ammunition to fuel the recruitment and funding of his increasingly inevitable primary opponent. (from Lieberman 3/9/05)

It is a good development, though I don't doubt the DLC will continue undermining the Democratic Party. Remember -- they've been typecast. They, like Joe Lieberman, are the Democrats reporters call when they're looking for a Democrat to criticize another Democrat. (from DLC sells out 5/31/05)

And so on. He has never been particularly afraid to bash Lieberman, and I've found numerous references to Lieberman as "Bush's favorite Democrat" (here and here, to name a few) and Lieberman as a "Fox News Democrat," etc. This is actually pretty moderate stuff compared with the reaction Lieberman provokes in the comments of the site.

The seed of Lamont's campaign was planted at Daily Kos, if you recall. Moulitsas (there's been an odd inconsistency in the media as to which of his names to refer to him by) and the denizens of Daily Kos jumped on the Lamont bandwagon early, helping him to raise a not insignificant amount of money this past quarter. Lamont also appeared at an April party in Los Angeles celebrating the release of Crashing the Gate, Moulitsas's book about reforming the Democratic Party. Lamont's candidacy has been promoted on the front page of Daily Kos countless times: Lamont was mentioned by Kos himself 32 times in front page stories, and he's appeared 65 times total. Almost all of that coverage has been positive, while coverage of Joe Lieberman has been, from 2003 on, relentlessly negative. A entire wing of the Democratic Party has been mobilized to anger about our junior senator, due in part (and possibly for the most part) to Daily Kos.

So having Kos in a Lamont commercial is a pretty natural fit, right? It's fair to say that the Lamont campaign wouldn't be nearly as threatening to Joe Lieberman as it is today without Markos Moulitsas Zuniga. The connection runs deep, and both Daily Kos and the Lamont campaign have a vast pool of supporters and followers in common.

So why does this still feel like a bad idea?

71 comments:

middlesexist said...

The race is over. Lamont had a good run of it, but friends of mine who worked for his campaign have either jumped ship or are in the process of doing so.

He should have been running ads a month ago -- he's not going to get Democratic delegates (or anybody else for that matter) to take him seriously unless he can get them to think that he's a serious alternative to Lieberman. And getting this unusually edgy ad guy to produce ads featuring a blogger hardly make him seem viable or mainstream.

That said, I'll still vote for Lamont, but I'm not optimistic.

stomv said...

Lamont might do well in the primary -- but can he do well enough?

I doubt it. The unfortunate part is that Lamont's run hasn't seemed to push Lieberman more to the left. Instead, the opposite seems to have happened -- Lieberman has moved more to the right recently, openly explaining that he'd be willing to run as an Indy.


Hopefully Lamont either surges or sinks quickly, so that money and resources can be redirected into the three Democratic House challengers.

MikeCT said...

Markos Moulitsas & Jerome Armstrong are coming to town on May 21 in New Haven, courtesy of My Left Nutmeg and Democracy for America-New Haven. They'll discuss their new book. I don't get the TV ad idea, either - about 0.1% of CT residents have ever heard of the guy.

One more sensible alternative explanation - the original post says he is filming a "commercial" - it's possible that it is just a Web video, not a TV ad. Or maybe he will appear but not be not named - ie, it's an inside joke.

As part of his scramble to patch together some Democrats to support him, Joementum will attend the formal announcement today of William Tong for state rep in Stamford.

Genghis Conn said...

I don't think that's going to happen, at this point. He's got enough money to keep going through August.

I'm witholding judgement on how well he'll do until after the convention.

Max said...

As much as I love daily kos, this is a bad idea. Lamont already has the people who read dkos. He needs someone else with credibility in the state.

Senator Harry Reid said...

The complete failures of the Republicans in Washington have made America less safe, less secure, and less competitive than ever before.

I haven't been able to devote any time to reading this Kos' blog, although I'm told it is very popular with a certain element in the party. But let me be clear: as the leader of the Democratic Party in the United States Senate, I need Joe to be re-elected. Joe's presence in the United States Senate is essential.

Joe has an unquestionable commitment to the progressive principles that make our Party great, and has told me time and time again of how proud he is of his Democratic party affiliation.

Mr. Lamont has Kos, Joe has me.

Every best wish,

U.S. Senator Harry Reid, Democratic Leader

ctkeith said...

GC,

You think it's a bad idea because you allow fear to be your first reaction to everything just like all those DC Democratic Consultants.

Markos was schedualed to come to New Haven for his book tour for months now and the fact he'll be here the day after the Ct Dem. Convention ends is a huge plus.

There's no bigger story in the country than whats happening in Ct. and you never even saw it coming.Tell me again why anyone should worry about your feeling it's a "bad idea"?

DeanFan84 said...

Genghis--
Sometimes I wonder about you. Your diary starts and ends with the premise that blogs like DailyKos are somehow "dirty". Good fucking grief, man. Unbelievable!

Are you truly that ashamed of what we do here? I mean freedom of speech was something this country was built on. And what Kos does, day-in and day-out,is both Patriotic and Heroic, particularly when we have so little accountability left in this country.

You bet Lamont will welcome Markos with open arms. The free and open debate we are having here in CT is exactly what the Democratic Party needs. Collectively we are asking the Party to stand for something, and to have some guts. To fight against the radical Right.

What's drives your fear? That in the end we'll have a Party of the People that you'll have no excuse not to join?

I don't care if you continue your attempt to be above the fray. But please show some respect to political bloggers every where, and stop acting as a frightened tool of the establishment.

DeanFan84 said...

Harry Reid--
I hope you know that what you are doing is wrong. I presume everyone will recognize you as one of Joe's lame-ass staffers, but assuming identities is still taboo.

DeanFan84 said...

Genghis--
I just want to remind you where we met. That was on Kos, where you were desperately promoting your infant blog.

Please get off your high horse. I really believe an apology is due.

If you want "dirty", keep your eye on Joe Lieberman and his upcoming shenanigans.

And again, it just blows my mind that you would write from such an angle.

mod.dem.like.jfk said...

It doesn't make a ton of sense to me unless they are trying to rile up their base. Which, based on everything I have seen doesn't seem like its a problem. Your average voter in Connecticut (like my mother) 1) has no idea who Kos is and 2) does not care.

I'm not entirely sure that Kos knows that though. Kos yesterday in the Washington Post had a thoughtfull peice on Hillary, which I did not totally disagree with. What I did disagree with was his trashing of the "Clinton Third Way" where he basically blamed William Jefferson for the Bush administration because he appealed to the middle and altered the Democratic party. Blameing Clinton for the failures of the Democrats through the 90's.

I think there is some truth to what he had to say, but what he missed was that Clinton did what he had to do to win and did what he had to do to govern without a mandate. Would it have been better for Clinton to lose or fail to govern for the well being of the party?

Kos seems like an intelligent guy from everything I have read and seen, but he also seems like he is letting this new stardom get to his head. I mean, the book tour? op-eds in Washington Post? I know the website is widely read, but does that really open the doors to instant credibility?

The answer to that last question is yes? I don't think he realizes that he has gotten so big online, and with the book tour and opeds that like it or not, his stardom has made him an an "in the beltway" guy at this point. But I also don't think he realizes that regardless of the number of hits, his base (to frame it in that context) is not that big.

I was taught, early on working on campaigns the hand metaphore. Your five fingers represent the political spectrum of voters for any campaign. Your pinky represents the far right who are a going to vote R regradless. Your thumb the far left who are going to vote D regardless. Your ring and pointer represent those that will likely vote R or D if your campaign can reach them, and the middle finger represents the independants, those that are hardest to reach, but getting them will give you the majority. The thing is, in any campaign, to win you can either turn out more of your base than they do, or turn out a similar number and reach out to the middle.

I feel like the Kos strategy presumes that there are more thumb voters out there than anyone else...and they are online.

What Kos and others don't get is that the majority of Democratic voters in this country aren't online (or aren't online that much). Its tough to spend hours online when your kids have soccer practice, you work 70 hours a week or two jobs, and you are busy with church, family, etc.

I think a lot of what Kos and others have to say is important, but the rise of the "net roots" will not crash the gate, it will only help you get to it. Lamont is the perfect example here, there is no doubt in my mind that they put the guy where he is. Its amazing when you think about it.

But still, how far will that take anyone. In my mind, the hand metaphor is still the best and Old school campaigning, like going door to door, will always be the best way to bring in the most fingers.

(One disclaimer to this is that I haven't read crashing the gate yet, but I am looking forward to doing so next week.)

DeanFan84 said...

Middlesex and StomV--

Joe's approval ratings are upside down among Liberals, he lost 11% amongst Independents last month, (and only his Republican #'s are stable), and you all want to write this race off, before it begins?

The Convention is the beginning, not the end. Just wait till Ned starts spending $$$ to get his message out. It will be a good message, and it will resonate.

and StomV--
the fortunate part is that Lamont's run has exposed Joe for the dog he's always been. Nothing can push Joe to the Left, b/c he is committed to playing to the other side.

ctkeith said...

Just curious GC,

If NYT collumnist Krugman,Dowd,Rich orFriedman wanted to appear in an ad for Lamont would it also be a "bad idea"?

Kos is probably read as widely and no doubt has as much influence as than any of these people.

How long have you been embarrased to be a blogger?

DeanFan84 said...

mod.dem.like.jfk.

I like your hand metaphor. But you left out five fingers. That whole other hand represents the half of American voters who don't participate in the process, b/c they can't believe that Democrats actually stand for them.

And why should they when we have a big phony like Joe Lieberman as an apparent Party leader?

The blogosphere isn't going away. Dems will have to find their backbones. (it's only a matter of time.) And my presumption is that we'll play the same role as the Christian Coalition did in the 80's.

Speaking of backbone, did anyone see Howard Dean on ABC this morning? I couldn't believe it. He actually talked about health care for all!

Genghis Conn said...

...And what angle is that? Seriously, what are you attacking me for this time? Wait, I think political blogs are "dirty"? I'm "embarassed" to be a blogger? After I just spent the last week clawing my way into the Democratic convention? After I spend my own time and money traveling around the state to interview candidates, and spend way too much time writing, designing and keeping this site going?

Sheesh. I swear, you guys have gone completely nuts.

I have nothing against Kos, although I'm a little tired of him (I tried to read his book. I really did. Zzzz). This just seems like something that won't gain Lamont much. I just don't see the benefit.

I think I've become a lot more cynical since I regularly posted at DKos, DF. I also think the site has changed, a little. I don't see much new there, anymore. I just see a lot of noise. I see noise everywhere, on the left and the right. Just my honest opinion, for what it's worth.

MikeCT said...

ctkeith & deanfan,

Genghis mostly documented the many ways in which Kos has tried to help Lamont. He, I, and others simply question whether it makes any strategic sense.

Markos is known to a miniscule portion of the population, even to those who have heard of Daily Kos. About 10 people in Connecticut would recognize him on the street. Kos readers and liberals are already with Lamont. So how does this help bridge to the undecided? It also could promote a mistaken idea that Lamont's support emanates from bloggers or people who live out of state. Ads with Maureen Dowd or Paul Krugman would also have zero impact.

Such an ad might be successful on the basis of cleverness, humor, Kos as one among several endorsers, etc. But not on the basis of Kos' appearance. (In any case, I have no idea if any of this is real.)

Genghis Conn said...

A good point--we don't know how serious this actually is.

ctkeith said...

mikect,

I can think of a million ways having Markos in an ad could help and every one of them has a picture of a President on it.

bluecoat said...

Harry,

Do you think Ned "the cable guy" Lamont would lose to the GOP candidate if the CT Dems decide to dump Joe through the democrtaic or back room process?

disgruntled_republican said...

Ask your neighbors who vote if they know who Kos is...most will say no. I asked my neighbor, a devout democrat and the answer was no.

I dont know if Lamont would lose to a GOP candidate if he won but it certainly would be a lot closer.


As for those once again attacking GC. I don't think I can take it anymore. Everytime someone has an opinion that differs from yours, you attack them. It happens time and time again. Read back without looking at the names and it will be crystal clear to you. It's pathetic.

Remember where you are...America. If you don't like what he is saying you are well within your rights to not read it and go somewhere else. Not to mention the fact that this not your blog, it is his.

He has created a forum for you to give your opinion and have open, itelligent conversation. Despite my differences with you politically, I fully realize you both have brought thought driven discussion here.

Until you are willing to compensate him for his time, energy and expenses, you really should stop with the critism of him.

bluecoat said...

DG: if you are answering me - because I can't figure out who you are adressing - in the reference to Lamont beating a GOPer, I didn't know your name was Harry as my salutation was meant to be to the Sen. "Harry" Reid on here - or are you also Harry Reid when you are not DG. Just kidding:))

disgruntled_republican said...

bluecoat...

Was ticked from the "others" who cant play nice...didn't realized you had asked Mr Reid...my apologies

bluecoat said...

DG: I knew you weren't talking to me on the not playing nice with our gracious host, GC, and I happen to agree with you on that.

hartford_for_lamont said...

middlesexist wrote:

"The race is over. Lamont had a good run of it, but friends of mine who worked for his campaign have either jumped ship or are in the process of doing so."

I don't see that at all -

We are bringing in new people every day to do volunteer work for Lamont; I myself was recently recruited to in turn phone-recruit new people to collect petition signatures for Lamont, and I have gotten a very enthusiastic response.

As for Lamont's campaign to win over the general citizenry of CT, that has not even started yet; the sole campaign focus now is just on a mere 1,607 people, that being those delegates to the May 20 Dem state convention.

That is why the latest Q-numbers polling the CT citizenry in general is totally irrelevant at this point.

You talk utter nonsense.

BRubenstein said...

Lamont needs to grow his "center" support...id love to see a mainstrem politician in an ad for Lamont.

Senator Harry Reid said...

"I hope you know that what you are doing is wrong. I presume everyone will recognize you as one of Joe's lame-ass staffers, but assuming identities is still taboo."

Dean fan 84, I think you and everyone else knows that I am in fact who I say I am. You can corroborate that by reading the printed letter I sent through the mail to Democratic delegates to your state convention.

But if one needs an excuse to use a name other than one's own, your group's viciousness toward the author of this blog (is Ghengis Conn his real name?) is all the justification one would require.

Mr. Lamont will fail in his bid to unseat Senator Lieberman, because loyal Democrats will rally to Joe's side. This will happen because Joe has an unquestionable commitment to the progressive principles that make our Party great.

Hatred will never be an acceptable basis for our Party to select a candidate, much less unseat a good man, a committed Democrat, someone who has devoted his life to good, principled government.

Hope you are enjoying your weekend.

Every best regard,

U.S. Senator Harry Reid, Democratic Leader

BRubenstein said...

GC you wrote " the seed of Lamont's campign was planted" by the daily kos...."

This is absolutely wrong !!!!!!

The seed of the Lamont campaign was planted by Joe Lieberman and the many conservative votes he made and the positions he held long before Markos got in the picture. indeed many folks in the liberal part of the democratic party have been talking about taking him on for years.

I see Markos as more a catalyst than an originator to dumping Joementum.

Genghis Conn said...

BRubenstein,

Actually, what I meant was that the buzz about the Lamont campaign--at least the public buzz--began with a post at Daily Kos. The push for a primary challenge is different.

Senator Reid,

That is, in fact, my real name. I have a cat named Kublai and a wife named Chaka. :)

ctkeith said...

The entire tenor of this diary was wrong,defeatist and arrogant.From the title to the attitude expressed in the second paragraph to the last sentence GC sees nothing positive about being associated with the biggest and most successful blogger in the world.

It was cheap and infintile and is something we would have expected fron TNR or some other failing arm of the DLC.

I'm proud to be a Liberal,Proud to be a Blogger,Proud I take the time online to keep myself informed and proud of my fellow Democrats who make up Daily Kos.

GCs blog was an empty wasteland until he visited and actively recruited people from Kos to come here and post.I was one of the first and I'll call a spade a spade whether or not some here feel he's being picked on.He's a big boy and can defend himself as he has for over a year now.

One more thing GC,
Although your efforts to get bloggers into the convention were commendable there were also people on Dem town committees that had ALOT to do with bloggers getting credentialed.I know more than a few who made calls over the last couple of weeks to insure bloggers got credentialed

DeanFan84 said...

Hey, believe it or not, I don't hate Genghis. (although sometimes I wish that he, as an ex-Green, would help in the fight to make the Democratic Party something worth believing in. Instead he has opted out of party politics altogether.)

In terms of what I said, having re-read everything twice, I stand by it.

In the second paragraph of this thread, Genghis suggested a joint appearance with Kos might be bad for Lamont, and at the end, he closed by saying it feels like a bad idea...

Sorry, all. But this sounds like the marginalization of Michael Moore, all over again. I may have over-reacted, but I'm not one to sit idly by while a blogger suggests another blogger might be a bad person to stand next to. It's an unwarranted put down, and it lends credence to the MSM's stereotypes.

What I want to hear from Genghis is why it is a bad idea for the Democratic Party to embrace MoveOn, Kos, George Soros, Howard Dean, and the Michael Moores of this world. Outside of the GOP's labelling, these guys are far less extreme than Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Pat Robinson, Tom Coburn, Tom Tancredo, etc, etc, etc. --all of whom the Republican Party gladly embraces.

There is a reason the other side works to trash our partisan mouthpieces. They are deadly afraid of them.

Genghis Conn said...

Yes, you were one of the first. You were nasty and insulting even then, as I recall.

I'm under no illusion that I alone got bloggers into the convention. I did some things, but a lot of the credit goes to other people. I didn't know about the DTC members--I'm glad to hear it! It's good news that more than just other bloggers are interested in having us there.

Could you point to the "defeatist" section? The "infantile" section? The post wasn't written with that rather odd intent, believe me. I just wanted to explore the connection, and question the effect of a very public tie.

I'm sorry if I don't see it, but the comments made here (and elsewhere) do suggest that there's actually limited strategic value to having him in a commercial with Lamont.

bluecoat said...

GC: Unless you say that Ned "the cable guy" Lamont is the best thing since sliced Wonder Bread that builds bodies twelve ways you are wrong about everything. I never heard of Daily Kos until I qafter I found this blog by accident and you mentioned it. I visited DK once and never again since I found it to be people of like mindset talking to people of like mindset. I also read a short interview piece in the NYT Sunday mag a few weeks bag about the guy that runs it and I snored.

And Harry Reid: If the Dems pick the cable guy are you fearful he will lose to the GOPer or is it you don't think the cable guy is a very good Democrat?

Genghis Conn said...

DF,

If you were Jodi Rell, would you want to be seen with James Dobson? Or George Bush (if you could help it)? Maybe that's why. If he's trying to appeal to moderates, this isn't the way. And moderates win elections. If Democrats can reclaim the middle, they'll be more successful.

bluecoat said...

House Intel Panel Chief Opposes Hayden it says here so more and more it looks like the Republicans in Congress are getting back their soul - and i am sure Joe will soon join in opposing this or backing Bush depending on how the winds are blowing.

Senator Harry Reid said...

Dear Mr. Dean Fan 84,

Mr. Moore is a marginal figure in the party. His views, or at least the expression of them, are outside the mainstream of the party and the country.

The contest between the elected leadership of people like myself and Joe Lieberman and the MoveOn, Kos, and Michael Moores of this world is not a problem, for us. It is a problem for you when your public figures are criticized or challenged publicly or privately.

As an old and very successful hand at this game, I should like to suggest along the way that drawing paralells to the likes of Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh will not be an effective way of appealing on behalf of Mr. Kos and Mr. Moore to the mainstream amd leadership of the Democratic party.

Mr. Bluecoat,

Mr. Rubenstein's hatred of Joe Lieberman, as he just bragged in this thread, is well known and understood for what it is. The "Connecticut for Dean" organization suffered fatally because of it, and hatred of your fine junior Senator does not form the basis of a candidacy that rank and file Democrats or leaders like me can support.

Warm regards,

U.S. Senator Harry Reid, Democratic Leader

bluecoat said...

So Harry; if the CT Democrats do nominate the cable guy or the cable guy gets on the D ballot by a primary, you won't back him?

bluecoat said...

And Harry; since you spend most of your time in Nevada or DC, you may not know that while some supporters of the cable guy don't like Joe, I have only heard the cable guy say he doesn't like some of Joe's ideas, positions and decisions.

mod.dem.like.jfk said...

GC-

I find that DF is a little more open to intelligent debate. (DF, good point earlier about the other hand of the political process). Where I think DF is wrong here is that he compares Lamont being seen with Markos as the same as being seen with Michael Moore- the difference is, everyone knows Michael Moore and has an opinion on him.

With CTKieth, however, it seems that if you don't agree with him 100% then you are a traitor, a troll, a lieberman staffer, etc. There is no logic to his arguments, only passion. Perhaps we need more passion in politics...but only when it is tempered with logic.

Bottom line is that the post was interesting, but I still think its a little off. If Kos coming in is going to rile up guys like DF and CtKeith, then there is the benefit to the campaign. It won't do a lick for the convention, my guess is delegates who read DailyKos are already going for Lamont. I think it will have a negligable effect outside of that group.

cgg said...

CTKeith, if you hate this blog so much why post? There are plenty of other political blogs out there. Why go out of your way to disrupt this forum? If you're that unhappy, move on.

As for the KOS/Lamont ad I think it does more for KOS than for Ned. Most voters in CT don't even know what Daily KOS is. Those who do already read it and probably My Left Nutmeg already anyway. Why spend valuable campaign funds on something like that? Even if Hillsman's ad is creative I can't see it doing that much good for Lamont.

ctkeith said...

GC,

Keep Digging!

Is George W Bush a Moderate?
How about John McCain? Joe Lieberman?

Is there anything Moderate about Ted Kennedy?

How about Ronald Reagan?

Wasn't trustbusting a radical idea when TR did it.

How about Geoge Washinton leading an army against Great Britain,Was that Moderate?

Just because you were never involved in a winning election as a green doesn't mean only moderates win elections.Jusy asak the people of Oklahoma.

mod.dem.like.jfk said...

Bluecoat, good point on Lamont. He seems like a nice guy. Im not sure if he knows how downright horrible some of the comments made from campaign supporters are. Some of the stuff said about Nancy DiNardo was downright awful.

That said, being nice doesn't mean you deserve to be a Senator. I talked to some people who were in Windsor last week for a close DTC vote on Lamont. Three people told me that barely any comments were made pro Lamont, they were all anti-war. If the Lamont surge is, as polls suggest, an anti-lieberman/anti-war, rather than pro-Lamont. If that is the case, what is the difference between Lamont and any other nice guy running for office (the answer is money)?

I really think that so much negative energy and hatefull comments are going to result in some kind of investigation of who Lamont really is. Good guy he may be, but very few of us have backgrounds squeeky clean enough to run for Senate (or the experience!). It'll will be interesting to see if that guy can get through those sorts of tests which will likely come after the convention. My guess is the first thing to come up will be that he gave to Lieberman for President and Lieberman for Senate 2006.

This has, and will be, interesting to watch...

DeanFan84 said...

Mod.dem.like.JFK--
Was the basis of the diary whether Lamont appearing with Kos might be of little effect, or, if such an appearance might hurt Ned?

I read it as the latter. And I still hope Genghis will answer my question of why Dems should run away from the MoveOns of this world. (while Republicans fight like heck to marginalize them.)

GeekGirl--
I'd imaginge that if Kos appeared in a Lamont ad, it would be as a cameo. Just a fun insider joke to prompt a few more small dollar contributions.

And try to find it in your heart to be forgiving to Kontroversial Keith. Even though Genghis has renounced the Green Party, many of us still blame them for the Bush Presidency, and this unnecessary war.

Senator Harry Reid said...

Dear Mr. Bluecoat,

Let me be clear: as the leader of the Democratic Party in the United States Senate, I need Joe to be re-elected. We have many battles in the future and his presence in the United States Senate is essential.

From my vantage point, Mr. Lamont is the current horse in an ongoing power struggle in Connecticut politics. His differences beyond the war with my friend Joe are small enough now in the heat of the moment.

Trust me on this, the United States Senate is no place for firebrands. Mr. Obama's transition into the Senate - masterfully guided by Senator Lieberman - should shed some light on what is expected in the greatest deliberative body in history.

Joe's been there with me, and now we need to be there for him. The United States needs his continued presence in the Senate, so we can work together for a better America.

Sincerest best wishes,

U.S. Senator Harry Reid, Democratic Leader

mod.dem.like.jfk said...

DF- My first of my two Lamont posts was meant that the appearance could not possible hurt Lamont. Not enough voters know Kos (and have pro or anti feelings about him), whereas a Michael Moore ad could potentially hurt him.

If the goal is to rally the base pre convention, keep the worker-bees and blogger-bees happy. Then it will work fine (or as you suggest generate some Kos smaller dollar money).

There isn't a huge upside to the whole thing besides that, but I would imagine that the Lamont people know that...

So I guess I found the post interesting as news, probably not particularly interesting to Lieberman's campaign, & a inside plus for Lamont workers, but not anything particularly controversial.

DeanFan84 said...

Targeted Killings Surge in Baghdad.

"More Iraqi civilians were killed in Baghdad during the first three months of this year than at any time since the toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime — at least 3,800, many of them found hogtied and shot execution-style."

"Others were strangled, electrocuted, stabbed, garroted or hanged. Some died in bombings. Many bore signs of torture such as bruises, drill holes, burn marks, gouged eyes or severed limbs."

"Every day, about 40 bodies arrive at the central Baghdad morgue, an official said. The numbers demonstrate a shift in the nature of the violence, which increasingly has targeted both sides of the country's SunniShiite sectarian divide."

From the LA Times.

DeanFan84 said...

Getting back to last night. You guys are right. We can't possibly begin to leave Iraq. If so, the different sects might start killing each other.

Barak Obama said...

Good evening,

I want to thank you again for the wonderful reception at your annual dinner and the honor of keynoting it.

Like Senator Reid, I am enthusiastically supporting Senator Lieberman. As I said at the "JJB", I know that some in the party have differences with Joe. Joe and I don't agree on everything. But what I know is, Joe Lieberman's a man with a good heart, with a keen intellect, who cares about the working families of America.

Let me urge you, progressives and moderates alike, to join me and Harry Reid in support of Joe Lieberman at your convention and again on August 8.

Sincerely,

U.S. Senator Barak Obama

cgg said...

DeanFan I'm not mad at CTKeith. He and I probably agree on issues more than we disagree. I just don't understand why he continues to post here if he despises the blog and GC's opinions that much.

As for the ad, I hope you're right. I'm looking forward to see what Hillsman comes up with. But really this does seem like more of a boost for Daily KOS than for Ned Lamont.

CTKnows said...

Bring back anonymous posting it can't get any worse than this drivel....

Chris MC said...

CGG quoth (on an earlier thread):
[...] no Democrat is offering a good solution because at this point there just isn't one.

Hard to argue with that very succinct statement.

So here is what I propose: let's win the House, impeach Cheney, investigate everybody else, and win the White House in 2008.

Who's with me?!

Frank Krasicki said...

Lieberman is done as a Democrat.

You're giving Daily Kos way too much credit. Lieberman's internet reputation is universally bad - he's a creep who can't be trusted and everybody knows it.

Liberals are getting blamed that Joe attracts flies - it isn't our fault, the guy routinely shows up on local FOX News holding hands with Rob Simmons fer instance.

How stupid does Lieberman think Democrats are? If Lamont is not the Democratic nominee my lawn will have Republican signs up supporting their candidate - no way Lieberman gets my vote, ever.

hartford_for_lamont said...

mod.dem.like.jfk wrote:

"Three people told me that barely any comments were made pro Lamont, they were all anti-war."

so what?

MOST CT citizens want to see their anti-war position articulated & represented by their senator, and they are p*ssed that they are not getting that representation now with Lieberman, so they can't stop talking about it -

what is wrong with liking Lamont even if only because he will represent their anti-war sentiments?

isn't that even by itself already doing a better representation job than Lieberman is now doing for us re iraq?

I cannot think of a higher voter motivation/justification than to want to vote for a guy because that guy echoes their own political sentiments, a thing which Lieberman does NOT do; heck, Joe even ran ads rubbing his failure to represent us right in our faces!

hartford_for_lamont said...

I would also take a repub over a Lieberman, no question.

Lieberman hurts the Dem party ten times worse than one CT repub senator would.

in the case you cited, I would vote green tho, not repub.

ctkeith said...

cgg,
I don't dispise this blog or GCs opinion.I just think GC can be very lazy at times and spouts the conventional wisdom as fact more than he should.

Take this diary for instance.

There's not one iota of evidence that having Markos in an ad would do any harm at all and as a matter of fact it might inspire a million dollars in contributions if say,Markos is standing with Jim Dean and the founder of Move-on yet all GC can see is the negative.It's as if he were trained by Fox News.

Daily Kos has had most important Dems including Kerry and Polosi post diaries on it and yet GC ,like one of Pavlovs dogs, has the gaul to compare Markos to James Dobson instead of being a little imaginative and figuring out how Markos might be used by the Lamont campaign in a very positive way.

Simply putting 2 and 2 together (Hillman and Markos) should not only make anyone involved in politics smile it should be a moment of huge anticipation but all GC could see with his CW sunglasses is Big Trouble.

Lamont isn't going to beat an 18 yr three term entrenched incumbent with more money than god and access to even more by doing a cookiecutter campaign yet in GCs world anything with risk must be avoided.
Thats exactly how Dems have mismanaged themselves into minority status today and I, for one,am sick of it.

Patricia Rice said...

Lamont supporters sensing defeat are looking to divide the party. They criticized Senator Lieberman for not being a "good" Democrat and now they are threatening to vote for a Republican? Who are the bad Democrats now?

MikeCT said...

First, we have no evidence of any plans for any ad beyond one phrase in a blog from another state which was one person's recollection of what he/she thought Markos said. I personally doubt that there is any such plan.

I think Markos could inspire contributions online - through his site or maybe through a Web video. I don't think any TV ad is going to raise a million or even cover its production costs, much less placement costs. They're not fundraising mechanisms, and Markos is not an effective messenger for CT voters.

I don't think it's likely to do a lot of harm, and I don't think GC was arguing that. Modest harm could come from pegging Lamont as a creature of bloggers and Californians. If there ever is such an ad, it could be clever and colorful and maybe we'll all celebrate it when it comes out. I just don't think Markos appearing as Markos will sway any CT voters that need to be swayed.

mod.dem.like.jfk said...

Hartford for Lamont- so what is right- I was merely making an observation. Implicit in it, however, is that if that is the reason most are going to Lamont, then they are going to have to do something to reach out more to dems who are more than just angry.

Personally, I don't get the whole "blinded by rage" approach with Lieberman. I really don't. One Senator doesn't green light a war. One Senator doesn't enable the president when he has a majority in that chamber. One Senator doesn't start a filibuster on a supreme court nomination that wasn't going to happen. I don't always agree with the guy, but he made me proud when he was elected VP in 2000. He has been good to my family, who has been employed in the defense industry for our 30+ years in this state...and has got through hard times by contracts Dodd and Lieberman steered to CT in the 90's and in the early years of this decade when the economy...I feel a certain degree of loyalty to a guy like that. That's why I'm sticking with him depite the war.

If you are mad at Bush, as am I, why are you taking that out on a sitting Democratic Senator rather than working to elect Dems to the House which could significantly weaken the administration? If thats where you want to expend your energy- more power to you. It shows your true colors when you say you won't support the Dem nominee.

All of that said, I'll support the Democrat nominee for Senator, whomever it is.

ctkeith said...

mod.dem.like.jfk,

Don't you believe Lieberman should be held to the same standard as every other Dem candidate and have to pledge He'll support the Eventual Dem nominee too?

So far he's refused to and is even threatening an independent run.

I'm ok with this because it's gotten my side quite a few Dem Town Chairs to switch to Lamont but Lieberman has proven his loyalty as a Dem is only if it's in HIS interest.

BRubenstein said...

there must be a discussion on the war..and this primary is the appropriate means to efficate a state-wide discussion.The messenger (Lamont) isnt the issue...the issue is we were lied and misrepresented into this war and lieberman was a leader doing that...even after the evidence showed that there wasn't WMD.Lieberman has been on the forefront of a host of terrible issues and votes detrimental to middle and working class folks and for that he has alot to answer for.

The fact remains that Joe voted against and has questioned bedrock democratic issues like affirmative action,tort reform and more.If Lamont didnt exist there would be someone else.That is why some of us ( anti-war) folks blog here and guess what..the american people agree with us about thie terrible and fraudulent war...i just wish Joe did as well.

mod.dem.like.jfk said...

CtKeith-

I do actually, because I have no doubt in my mind that Joe will be that nominee. Lieberman never said he wouldn't support the dem candidate, he said he hasn't ruled out an independent run. Frankly you Lamonters should be proud of that, your candidate gained enough street cred in three short months to spook an 18 year incumbent Senator to consider other options. Which is why I think he said it to being with. In the last few weeks, it looks like he has reversed that position on the nuclear options. Lieberman has said plainly to quite a few delegates that he is a Dem and will stay a Dem. Good enough for me!

Chris MC said...

OK, out with it Lamont supporters. Lieberman has made it clear he is and will remain a Democrat.

Ned Lamont has said he will support the Democratic nominee even if it is Joe Lieberman.

What say you? Will you commit to support Lieberman if he is the nominee come August 9th?

ctkeith said...

Lieberman said PUBLICLY he would not rule out an Independent run and now you mod dem,whom I believe has the first name Ken,are saying "Lieberman has said plainly to quite a few delegates that he is a Dem and will stay a Dem."

Thats not publicly and not binding and I don't believe it.

If Lieberman wants to declare he'll support the Eventual nominee he knows exactly how to call a press conference or put out a press release.Until then I'll take him at his word that he "hasn't ruled out an independent run"

DeanFan84 said...

Chris Mc--
What are you smoking? Lieberman has voiced anything but a commitment to the the Party, and its Primary. When asked point blank, he refused to rule out a destructive Independent run.

In contrast, Lamont said long ago that he would stand behind Lieberman, if he were to win the Dem Primary. An untold number of us have said the same!

My question for you-- do you support Lieberman, even to the extent he won't rule out an Independent run? And if so, what kind of "Democrat" does that make you?

disgruntled_republican said...

ctkeith-

you dodged the question...but i beleive you said before you would back liberman, did you not? i may be mistaken...

mod.dem.like.jfk said...

ctkeith, you asked a question and I answered it based on info that i had heard. Why does that make you so upset?

As I said earlier today, anyone that does not agree with you 100% is "a traitor, a troll, a lieberman staffer, etc." I'm assuming when you call me Ken you are referencing a Lieberman staffer because you have called me Ken many times now. Again, I will continue to say that I'm not employeed by any campaign or politician.

I'll be for the Dem nominee, Dean Fan says he'll support the Dem nominee, Hartford4Lamont will vote Republican if Lieberman wins it, CTkeith where do you stand?

ctkeith said...

There was never any question where I stand.I'm a true Democrat,a delegate and will stand with my Party.

Thats exactly what is required in order for any delegate to cast his or her vote for any candidate and exactly the same is required OF THE CANDIDATE.

Joe Lieberman has refused to say that publicly and said the option to run as an independent for him and only him remains on the table therefore he should not recieve one delegates vote,period.

As for 'What you've Heard".That don't mean squat.

Chris MC said...

DF84

I've never suggested I wouldn't back the Democratic nominee for any office, and I wouldn't start now. I'm glad to learn that Keith and you are honoring the process. So far only Rubenstein and hartford_for_lamont are unwilling to walk the line? Anybody else care to declare their loyalty?

As for Lieberman, I saw that clip when he was asked the question, and I posted here then that it was clearly standard fair for a Washington politician, or most any experienced pol, to reflexively duck questions like that and keep all avenues open. Give Ned fifteen minutes in office and he'd say the same kind of stuff, it comes with the territory.

ctkeith said...

Chris mc'

Please provide the link where any other Sitting Senator being challenged to a primary has said "an independent run by me is not off the table"

Even Spector,who lost the vote at his convention, never dared say it.

As usual,you are full of yourself and other"Stuff".

bluecoat said...

I promise that I will not vote for the chameleon or the cable guy under any circumstances _ and I do vot Democrat when the candidate is a straight shooter and bountiful with talent unlike these two guys,

BRubenstein said...

Dear Chris...I am going to wait and see how both candidates conduct themselves and see what they stand for before i make up my mind.

Jandtheargonauts said...

Kos in the ad ..

Hmmm .. what do you think his name recognition is with Dem Primary voters ... I think maybe 3%, nah, that's too generous, probably 2% ...

Good luck on this strategy and spending that money ... you already have the votes of the people who know and like Kos - I have to believe Bill Hillsman did not come up with this one!