Connecticut Politics and Elections: Coverage, Analysis, Maps and Commentary
This is probably not an appropriate place for a debate about the war itself.
Agreed. Nice piece in the Courant, huh?
Thanks for posting the link to the honor roll in the Courant. I slowly read each of the brief epitaphs and looked carefully at the pictures. Moving.
Yet Chris Mc is a Lieberman/Malloy guy....Easy to be "moved" when your family isn't at risk. Isn't it Chris Mc!And Genghis, when will we have the "war debate"? We owe our fallen more than just our gratitude. How about an earnest dialogue? Should our military be camped out in Iraq?What I'm suggesting is that if you, McCardle, CTKeith, Matt Lieberman, ME, the Bush kids and everyone else isn't motivated to be over there, --fighting this police action and risking our necks, --maybe it's a bad war to begin with.Let's debate the war itself. Enough of playing chicken. Would you send your family members to Iraq for this "noble cause"? C'mon Chris, C'mon Genghis, answer me this...
We've had the war debate. We keep having it. I'd rather not have it here.At this point, there's not much left to debate, anyway. Vote in August and November.
Genghis--I'm sad that on this Memorial Day, the Iraq War isn't relative to your today. "I'd rather not have a debate here"? WTF.At this point there is still plenty left to debate. How many American families were wrecked this month? But you suggest that we not mention casualties here?The "war debate" hasn't been had until people like yourself either take a side, or volunteer to serve alongside America's finest. If you believe in the Iraq Occupation, why not join our troops in risking your physical well-being?My understanding is that as an unaffiliated ex-Green, you have no vote in the August primaries. So why trumpet them as an excuse for sitting on the sidelines?Do you believe Iraq is a just, and winnable, war? Or, like Hillary, are you happy with your damnable platitudes? It's not like Americans are dying daily...
I am as against the war as anyone..and have said so many many times..but i will no comment today..I found the Courant article extremely moving.
Trueblue -Shame on you, too, for insisting on exploiting the war for political purposes.And, as usual, you don't know what you are talking about. I have family and friends "over there".
Bruce,Thats your choice.I chose differently.I walked the parade route in my town with a large sign that saidANYBODY BUT LIEBERMANI want a real Dem in 06on one sideOn the other it saidANTI_WAR ANTI_JOEI walked the entire route and gave away about 100 of the "kiss Buttons".Only a couple of People Felt what I did was inappropriate.One Said "What you're doing is disgusting.Today is a day we Honor our War dead"I replied"Sitting on your Butt and clapping as firetrucks pass by Honors Noone.If everyone does what you're doing more of our kids will be dead next year for nothing."If I made a few Rush Limbaugh Fans Uncomfortable today so be it.The majority of the crowd was glad to see me and made that perfectly clear with their applause.
I have the utmost respect for our solidiers, but I think it's a shame that they are suffering and dying in a war that they should never have been sent to. Our leaders, Republican and Democrat, betrayed our troops by sending them to Iraq and not continuing the pursuit of Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan.Our leaders betrayed our troops when they based their war plans on delusions. They also betrayed our troops by not equiping them with proper armor and by outsourcing basic necessities to contractors who only care about making a profit. The betrayal runs deeper on the Republican side who also cut veteran benefits so that the wealthy few can keep more of their wealth.Our leaders betrayed our troops and our nation by supporting the torture, especially the torture of children and other innocents.On this Memorial Day, I will honor the sacrifices our soldiers made and remember the mistakes our leaders made in sending some of our soldiers into wars they should never have gone into.
Amen, Genghis. Though I feel it absolutely unconscionable to politicize the deaths of this country's sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, friends and loved ones ANY DAY OF THE YEAR, I think that today of all days should be set aside for us to hold our tongues, forget our differences, and be thankful that we are allowed to discuss, debate, and express dissent because of the brave men and women of the past, present, and future, and their sacrifice.Talk about the war tomorrow, fellas. But for today, just appreciate what they've done for you.
All who are dying in this War are dying Because of politics and cynical Politicians.It's laughable to be told top hold our tongues by those who blindly followed George W Bush instead of opening their eyes,ears and mouths BEFORE our kids were sent into this meatgrinder.The Anti-War crowd,Even those as farleft as Michael Moore were smarter,Better informed,and most importantly RIGHT on every point in this made up war.We told you there were no WMD just like the UN inspectors said.We told you the troops wouldn't be greeted as Liberators but seen as occupiers.We told you getting in was the easy part.We told you it would cost far more treasure than any of the numbers the Administation was putting out.andWe told you Saddamn was a bastard but he had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and going into Iraq would end in a Quagmire and now we're there.Now the people who were right on every aspect of this stupid adventure are telling you the only way out is to leave and let the people of Iraq work it out their way and idiots like Lieberman still don't get it. As long as the people of this country allow people Like Joe Lieberman,Who have never had skin in the game, to cheerlead for war every time that option is put on the table you'll have fresh meat for your Memorial Day Parades.I leave you all with something from Atrios Today.The willingness to send others off to die for a misguided war because you wet your pants after 9/11 is called "cowardice" not courage.
Reflecting on Death, Destruction, and America's role in James Woolsey's "World War IV"....Bombings in Iraq Kill 3 Dozen People --The San Francisco Chronicle.Two soldiers, two civilians: another day of death in Iraq --The London Times.In pictures: Day of violence in Iraq --BBC.uk2 CBS Crew Members Killed in Iraq bombing. --CBS.comI wonder how many limbs CBS News correspondent Kim Dozier will have left, if she lives. I wonder how many kids the two dead cameramen left behind. I wonder if anyone in America will ever be held accoutable for what ex-NSA director, Gen. William Odom called the "biggest mistake in the history of United States foreign policy." And yeah, I want to throw the bums out.
Genghis is right. This is a day to honor the sacrifice of the dead and the deeply wounded survivors. TrueBlueCT - consider this. In at least half of the countries in the world, submitting a post like yours would cause you to be hunted down and killed like a dog - if you were lucky. If you were unlucky, you would be tortured, watch as your family was savaged and then die a slow and agonizing death. This happened all too often in pre-2003 Iraq. It also happened all over the Communist world and in many dictatorships. Don't believe me? Go to Cuba and post a message about incumbent politicians.Many of you hate George Bush and everything he has done. Don't take that hate out on the vets. They have enough demons to deal with without people like you piling on.By the way, I voted for George McGovern on my way home from Southeast Asia.
oh, and I forgot Afghanistan, our bright shining example of Democracy in the Middle East."We don't want Americans in our country. They don't care about poor people. They killed innocent people today and this is not the first time," said Abdul Shakoor, a 28-year-old who joined in the protests after Monday's traffic accident. "They do it all the time and in the end they say it was a mistake. It's not acceptable to us anymore."Some needs to send Mr. Shakoor the memo that we're really there for them, the Muslim peoples. I mean it's not like Afghanistan is home to 70-80% of the world's opium trade.
Great Santini--I don't hate our vets. Shame on you for suggesting any such thing. In doing so you are as bad as Bush and Lieberman, trying to hush up the critics via innuendo and false patriotism.This is a bad war. People are dying for a lie. Our country is conducting itself wrongly in a war even the Pope decried as unjust.You can't honor the dead by putting your head in the sand. How many more good men and women will die on foreign sands before America admits to a mistake?I went to my Memorial Day service. I talked with vets and some of our National guardsmen. To a man they were happy that I was fighting to puncture the lie, and end this war. They also were fully aware of the disconnect between those who are championing this war, and those who are risking their necks to actually fight it.We got rid of Saddam, now let's leave the nation-building to someone else. Bring our troops home.
I've spent the day attending Memorial Day remembrances, and with family, many of whom have served. I don't thinkt there is a right day or a wrong day to exercise your right to question our government's decisions.I do think, however, that there are inappropriate times to do so. That does not mean your arguments are wrong. Standing up and challenging the Pope about abortion and choice during a mass would, in my opinion, be inappropriate. It would be an attempt to appropriate a solemn occasion to advance one's own views. There are other times and places to do so.I feel the same way about Memorial Day and Veteran's Day. These are days to honor the sacrifice men and women of all generations have made. Some made the ultimate sacrifice, others limbs, families and dreams.In my humble opinion, it is not too much to ask that we take two days a year to stop and simply thank those who have served and who serve today, and take up our own arguments tomorrow.
Well Ct observer,I suggest you stay home and off the internet if you want to not be bothered with other people expressing their rights to speech.You have every right not to listen but none to demand others silence.Thats what they died for.
TrueBlueCT said: This is a bad war.According to who.?Here's what one theologian says: GOOD WARS by Darrell Cole`The Christian who fails to use force to aid his neighbor when prudence dictates that force is the best way to render that aid is an uncharitable Christian. Hence, Christians who willingly and knowingly refuse to engage in a just war do a vicious thing: they fail to show love toward their neighbor as well as toward God. '
CTKeith said: You have every right not to listen but none to demand others silence.What you did was almost as classy as protesting at a serviceman's funeral or graveside service.Not quite though.
Some people just have no decency. ctkeith is one of those people. There is a time to fight your battles and there is a time to stand down. Today was one of those days to stand down. 363 days are not enough for you?
Standing down would have been the easy thing to do.It wasn't and isn't OK that all those People Lined up on Main Street were allowed to be so comfortable while others kids are thousands of miles away getting their asses shot at.Funny thing,Almost every guy in uniform today either gave me a thumbs up or took a button.The WW2 vets all got it too.
You have an absolute right to free speech. However, that doesn't mean you have to pick the most inappropriate and obnoxious times to use it. There's a time and a place for every fight. Today we can honor and respect the dead and the survivors of this and other wars. Tomorrow, you can attack those responsible, if you want. In August and November, you can vote for change.
Genghis, your spiritless indifference to the continued killing in Iraq does our troops a far greater disservice than than the online antics of a few of us loud-mouthed critics.If you really want to memorialize our troops, why not a few stories of the individual sacrifices, and the pure horror that this unnecessary war has wrought? Our wars ought to be reckoned in very real terms.And I'm going to insist that there is no better way to honor those who have proudly worn the United States uniform than to fight, politically, to put a prompt end to this un-godly war. The easy blindness and perverted silence of so many Americans do our troops a great disservice. They were never meant to serve as policeman in a foreign occupation. This wasn't part of the contract. And it's abusive of the trust they placed in us when they enlisted. We know it. The troops know it.If you had any real regard for the troops you would be working to bring them home. Let the United Nations attend to the future of Iraq. And failing that, let the Iraqis figure it out for themselves. Our presence as perceived occupiers isn't making things better. And any government that will result will be viewed by many as a puppet regime.God damn this evil war, and those who were so eager to wage it. If their sons and daughters were wearing our uniform this war would never have happened.
TrueBlueCT said:God damn this evil war, and those who were so eager to wage it. If their sons and daughters were wearing our uniform this war would never have happened.That any other perspective might exist is of no relevance what so ever to you is it?-ACR
Authentic--What family members do you have fighting the "terrorists" over there?I understand you have a different "perspective". I just question it to the core. For the record, in the case of a naked emporer, the majority of his subjects felt it easier to believe in the quality of the cloth.Again, if you, or one of your loved ones is risking your necks over there, you have my full-blown respect. But if you're just another chicken-hawk freely supporting this idiotic war, --well, hell is a good place for you.God Bless your "perspective"... I only wish you were putting your own life on the line to defend it. Bloody chicken-hawks.
Trueblue said: God Bless your "perspective"... I only wish you were putting your own life on the line to defend it. Bloody chicken-hawks.I have a bright, strapping 18 year old boy who wants to put off his full boat scholarship and join. He graduates high school in under a month. (Frankly I'm pointing him towards the Coast Guard (he's not going for it)- his mother is simply having a fit.)He has several friends that are over there now and a handfull that have already returned. None of his friends that have been there view our involvement in the light you do at all. Quite the contrary.I suspect you would have been opposed to the Civil War as well seeing as it, from a Connecticut standpoint, wasn't "our" problem.By the way; you can look it up.Neville Chamberlain was wrong.
There's a great AP interview with Malloy about his childhood that's on courant.com today.
ACR,Neville Chamberlain was wrong. If you take your history seriously he was wrong because he appeased the last nutcase who justified Preemtive War as an excuse for their Ambitions.one more thing,When do we FREE SAUDI ARABIA.
Regarding the two CBS camera men who died yesterday in Iraq. They each left behind two children. Kim Dozier can wiggle her toes, and open her eyes. So it sounds as if she still has legs and sight. Grotesque effing war with no apparent purpose but to incite Muslim people against us. Keith is right. When does George Bush start pressing his Saudi friends towards democracy?
TrueBlue, Keith -Curiously, you appear to agree with Joe's friend Woolsey, who said in the link you provided above (WWIV), "Singling out Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and the leaders of Saudi Arabia, [Woolsey] said, "We want you nervous. We want you to realize now, for the fourth time in a hundred years, this country and its allies are on the march and that we are on the side of those whom you -- the Mubaraks, the Saudi Royal family -- most fear: We're on the side of your own people."And again, Malloy is opposed to the war, has said so eloquently. See his nomination of Farrell on CT-N.
"I-95 is well beyond a serviceable age, and there are too many exit and entrance ramps," said Michael Riley, president of the Connecticut Motor Transport Association, a truck lobbying group.,quoted from Heavy truck mishaps most common on I-95 in Fairfield County and the DOT isn't planning on doing anything about it because the legislature and the Govrnor have their head.....
Congratulations!!!!Enfield 'does it again' with spectacular turnout for Memorial Day parade By:Jason Rowe, Journal Inquirer 05/28/2006
Memorial Day is a day for the veterans. They freely chose to serve our country for whatever need arises. They have even decided to do so no matter who is commander in chief. I'd prefer not to serve under a Democratic leader- yet these men and women put their loyalty to our country above the politics. In the posts above, it seems that you quickly deflect attention away from the veterans to our nation's leader. Its the leaders of the country that make the decisions, not the individual soldiers we honor. The day is there for them - for their sacrifice. For their leadership. There are hundreds of examples and stories.
Was Lieberman at any Memorial Day events in Connecticut?
Yeah. Lieberman was in Waterbury, where he paraded around town with Nancy Johnson at his side. Ned Lamont was there, the two bumped into each other, and supposedly Joe wouldn't shake Ned's hand??! Maybe Lieberman was uneasy with the stupid attack ads he is running against Lamont.Anyway, God bless our troops, and bring them home now.
Actually Memorial day is to honor those who have died while serving their country. The line between it and Veteran's Day often get confused in modern times, which I think is sad. The homogenization dilutes the importance of both holidays. Personally I can't separate honoring the dead without also wondering what they died for, The problem with the war debate is that the rhetoric hasn't changed much. Everyone has been shouting the same things back and forth for three years now. The details change from time to time, but the culture that surrounded this war stays the same.
Another thoughtful post and point subtly put, CGG.
I stand corrected, cgg. Good post. Thankyou.
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