Wednesday, March 30, 2005

Orman Press Release

I received an email from someone claiming to be Dr. John Orman (the would-be primary challenger to Joe Lieberman). Attached was this "press release":

March 29, 2005

Dr. John Orman, Fairfield University Politics Professor announced today that he has begun the process of filling out the state and federal forms to establish the “Dr. John Orman: THE DEMOCRAT for U.S. Senate” committee.

Orman said, “After witnessing Senator Lieberman’s recent moral histrionics over the Schiavo case, I wonder why he showed no such moral outrage over the loss of life for over 1500 American military personnel in Iraq. We have now been involved militarily in Iraq from 1991 until today. This is longer than the U.S. was involved militarily in Vietnam!”

Orman said, “Why isn’t Lieberman questioning President Bush about his failure to capture Bin Laden. Bin Laden has been on the run longer than the amount of time it took the U.S. military to capture Adolph Hitler!”

Orman said, “These issues are more important to our country than having a righteous Senator grandstanding over the personal, private, medical and legal decision of an American family.”

This release appeared in no major newspapers in CT that I am aware of, nor does it turn up in Lexis-Nexis. That, however, could simply mean that it was ignored.

If this is indeed Professor Orman's press release, I would like to issue a few corrections and clarifications, if I may:

1. It would be nice to see Senator Lieberman express the kind of urgent concern he had shown for Terri Schiavo about our fallen soldiers, but it is misleading to compare Iraq and Vietnam based solely on the length of time we have been involved there. Indeed, much of our "involvement" in Iraq over the past decade and a half was been spent patrolling the No-Fly Zones from our bases in Kuwait and elsewhere. Direct military action was only taken a few times. The situation in Vietnam was fundamentally different for many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that Vietnam was a combat zone from the very beginning of the American military presence there... as any professor of political science ought to know.

2. You imply that the U.S. military captured Adolf Hitler. This is not the case. He shot himself to death in his bunker as Berlin was being beseiged by the Soviets. His body was taken by the Soviets to an unknown location. The U.S. military didn't come within a dozen miles of him, much less take possession of him. Even if you were stating that it took less time to bring Nazi Germany to heel, this would also be false. World War II lasted six years; the War on Terror has lasted not quite four.

Again... these may not be his words. The email came from a Fairfield University email address and the phone number matches the number listed on the Fairfield U. website, but take it with the usual grain of salt.

I would be happy if Professor Orman could clarify his comments for us.


stomv said...

So post the full header of the email... and we'll track down the sender if possible.

stomv said...

So post the full header of the email... and we'll track down the sender if possible.

Anonymous said...

It was indeed from Dr Orman.He told me he has been reading your blog for a while although I couldn't understand why since reading a few CT. papers and spouting conventional wisdom is all you have to do to skip it.

Did you know that your Jr. senator spoke at the Ct. Dem state central meeting last night and the first questioner (town chair) told him he wouldn't be welcome at her Dem town committee meeting.

Did you know that all the Dem town chairs in the 5th district demanded a meeting with Lieberman to explain his position on SS last week and got it.

If all your going to do is read a few papers and spout the CW why bother with a blog.

Genghis Conn said...


The fact remains that the press release is riddled with errors and mischaracterizations, which supports my view that Dr. Orman, who is undoubtedly very good at what he does, is probably not be the right candidate for your noble but misguided group.

Anonymous said...

No,All factual misrepresentations are yours. We have indeed been involved militarily in Iraq since 1991.If you think otherwise you're a fool.Just because you didn't find stories in the 3 papers you read doesn't mean it's not a fact.

The Hitler thing shows how little historic knowledge you have.While you're correct that noone captured Hitler ALIVE I think its safe to give credit for the US military for the downfall of Nazi Germany and the suicde of Hitler and it did indeed take the US and her allies less time than since Bin laden declared war on the USA (1998).
Your petty analysis fits perfectly with your petty little blog.We have maps,indeed.Stick to mapreading because unless you're willing to get off your butt and do the hard work neccasary to give an educated insight(that means real political involvement and numerous hrs of time and energy) I suggest you stay out of the analysis part.

Genghis Conn said...

Hm. You are a troll, anonymous, so I shouldn't give you more than a nice recipe or something. But just for clarification:

We have "been involved militarily" with Iraq since 1991, but in such a limited way that comparisons to Vietnam become meaningless. Apart from special forces and other covert operations, however, there has been only one large-scale military incursion into Iraq itself, in 2003. Open warfare with Iraqi troops happened in the original Persian Gulf War of 1991, and again in 2003. Fighting between Iraqi insurgents and American troops continues. There was a long period from 1991-2003 in which American pilots acted as policemen for the No-Fly Zones. This period was punctuated by the occasional bombing of Baghdad or the occasional shot taken at aircraft. Few lives were lost. The situation can realistically be compared to keeping the peace in the Korean DMZ. In contrast, Vietnam saw a steady buildup of American troops and casualties, as open and guerilla warfare was already underway against the South Vietnamese government from 1960 on. There was a steady conflict going on for the entire time. It is therefore academically dishonest of Dr. Orman and yourself to compare the two based solely on the length of time our forces have been "involved" with Iraq and Vietnam (a vague statement if ever I heard one), as they faced vastly different conditions for much of the time. This is obvious to anyone with some perspective. There are plenty of wonderful and interesting comparisons to be drawn between the two conflicts... I really don't know why Dr. Orman chose the one he did.

Your second point further reveals your utter lack of historical perspective, but the issue here isn't what you wish Dr. Orman had said, it's what he actually said, which is "Bin Laden has been on the run longer than the amount of time it took the U.S. military to capture Adolph Hitler!" The intent of that statement is merely misleading (comparing two extremely different actions), the facts of it are just plain wrong.

Errors and mischaracterizations.

Your attacks on me are a little odd, too, since my analysis seems to piss you off so. If you don't like what you read here, why not go elsewhere?

Anonymous said...

Well lets See.You fly planes over another sovereign country without UN appoval and shoot any radar equipped anti-aircraft missile battery that lights up and thas not an act of war?

Your Jr. Senator co-sponsors with "his good freind"John McCain a law that for the first time in american history makes "Regime change" the OFFICIAL policy of the US Government and thats not provocative.

Clinton bombs Iraqs Capital twice without UN approval and thats not an act of war.

I guess under your rules we really aren't at war now because CONGRESS hasn't declared war and we should go back to calling vietnam a "police action".
Go register Republican now because you already bought the program.

Genghis Conn said...


Don't you have anything better to do?

Title: Toll House Chocolate Chip Cookies
Categories: Cookies
Yield: 1 servings

2 1/4 c Flour
1 ts Baking soda
1 ts Salt
1 c Butter, softened
3/4 c Sugar
3/4 c Firmly packed brown sugar
1 ts Vanilla
2 Eggs
12 oz Chocolate morsels

In small bowl, combine flour, baking soda and salt; set aside. In large bowl, combine butter, sugars, and vanilla. Beat until creamy. Beat in= eggs.

Gradually add flour mixture; mix well. Stir in morsels. Drop by
teaspoons onto ungreased cookie sheets.
Bake for 8-10 minutes at 375F.

ctkeith said...

Your first post of a recipe and you couldn't come up with anything original.How come I'm not suprised.Was it in the Courant or the

J. Clifford said...

I think it's kind of unfair to characterize anonymous as a troll, as he makes some very substantive points. John Orman is running for Senate, it's official now. May I add my hearty endorsement for ANY DEMOCRAT BUT LIEBERMAN?